Comments on: Hippolytus and December 25th, the birthday of Christ-Christmas http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/ Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:06:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Julius Africanus and Christmas as December 25 | Chronicon Blog http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-932 Julius Africanus and Christmas as December 25 | Chronicon Blog Mon, 03 Jan 2011 04:21:24 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-932 [...] I would add that there is evidence that Alexander of Jerusalem (c. 218 CE) also says that Jesus was resurrected on March 25 (Dobschutz TU 11.1 p.136f found here , (thanks to Stephen Huller for pointing this out in a comment on my blog) [...] [...] I would add that there is evidence that Alexander of Jerusalem (c. 218 CE) also says that Jesus was resurrected on March 25 (Dobschutz TU 11.1 p.136f found here , (thanks to Stephen Huller for pointing this out in a comment on my blog) [...]

]]> By: The Supposedly Pagan Origins Of Christmas « Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog… Now He's Eastern Orthodox? http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-369 The Supposedly Pagan Origins Of Christmas « Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog… Now He's Eastern Orthodox? Tue, 07 Dec 2010 00:31:08 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-369 [...] C. Schmidt, “Hippolytus and December 25th, the birthday of Christ-Christmas” (8 December 2009)http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/ (Retrieved 4 December 2010). It should be noted that this portion of Hippolytus’ work was long [...] [...] C. Schmidt, “Hippolytus and December 25th, the birthday of Christ-Christmas” (8 December 2009)http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/ (Retrieved 4 December 2010). It should be noted that this portion of Hippolytus’ work was long [...]

]]> By: The Pagan Origins of Christmas? « Orthocath http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-363 The Pagan Origins of Christmas? « Orthocath Mon, 06 Dec 2010 06:20:20 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-363 [...] “Hippolytus and December 25th, the birthday of Christ-Christmas” (8 December 2009) http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/ (Retrieved 4 December 2010). It should be noted that this portion of Hippolytus’ work was [...] [...] “Hippolytus and December 25th, the birthday of Christ-Christmas” (8 December 2009) http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/ (Retrieved 4 December 2010). It should be noted that this portion of Hippolytus’ work was [...]

]]> By: Tom http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-305 Tom Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:11:31 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-305 thanks for the interesting observations Rob, I discussed some of what you mentioned in my appendix to the translation of Hippolytus of Rome's commentary on Daniel. You can find my blog post about December 25 date <a href="http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-the-original-date-of-christmas/" rel="nofollow">here </a> in addition to what you said is also possible that Hippolytus is simply incorrect or know something that we don't about leap years. thanks for the interesting observations Rob, I discussed some of what you mentioned in my appendix to the translation of Hippolytus of Rome’s commentary on Daniel. You can find my blog post about December 25 date here

in addition to what you said is also possible that Hippolytus is simply incorrect or know something that we don’t about leap years.

]]> By: Rob Flammang http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-289 Rob Flammang Thu, 25 Nov 2010 21:21:13 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-289 Hans Dampf pointed out above that in the proleptic Julian Calendar, 25 December 2 BC is a Thursday, and not a Wednesday. I'd like to add a note of caution about his statement. We have no historical certainty about when leap years occurred before 8 AD. Whenever we run the Julian calendar backwards to years before then, i.e., whenever we use it proleptically, we are leaving the realm of strict accuracy. Without knowing exactly what years were leap years, it is impossible to be certain about what day of the week December 25th may occur on. That said, there has been a certain amount of historical sleuthing regarding when exactly the leap years before 8 AD were. The most commonly used guess, that of Scaliger, would put 25 Dec 2 BC to be on a Saturday. However, the work of Bunting and Christmann would put it on a Friday. If 25 Dec were on a Friday, then the following 6 Jan would be on a Wednesday; I mention this only because of the words of the enigmatic Scriptor Syrus, who said that Christ was born on 6 January, but his observed birthday was later moved to 25 December. Recent papyrus evidence seems to favor Bunting over Scaliger to some extent. Intriguingly, the new evidence also opens up a tertium quid, the possibility that the proleptic calendar may also be the historical one as far back as 24 BC. If that is the case, then Hans's statement that 25 Dec 2 BC was on a Thursday would in fact be correct. In the liturgy of Rome, a celebration nominally scheduled for Thursday 25 Dec would actually begin in the evening of the previous Wednesday, which might explain the discrepancy, if the author Hippolytus was in fact our Roman Hippolytus. Hans Dampf pointed out above that in the proleptic Julian Calendar, 25 December 2 BC is a Thursday, and not a Wednesday. I’d like to add a note of caution about his statement. We have no historical certainty about when leap years occurred before 8 AD. Whenever we run the Julian calendar backwards to years before then, i.e., whenever we use it proleptically, we are leaving the realm of strict accuracy. Without knowing exactly what years were leap years, it is impossible to be certain about what day of the week December 25th may occur on.

That said, there has been a certain amount of historical sleuthing regarding when exactly the leap years before 8 AD were. The most commonly used guess, that of Scaliger, would put 25 Dec 2 BC to be on a Saturday. However, the work of Bunting and Christmann would put it on a Friday. If 25 Dec were on a Friday, then the following 6 Jan would be on a Wednesday; I mention this only because of the words of the enigmatic Scriptor Syrus, who said that Christ was born on 6 January, but his observed birthday was later moved to 25 December.

Recent papyrus evidence seems to favor Bunting over Scaliger to some extent. Intriguingly, the new evidence also opens up a tertium quid, the possibility that the proleptic calendar may also be the historical one as far back as 24 BC. If that is the case, then Hans’s statement that 25 Dec 2 BC was on a Thursday would in fact be correct. In the liturgy of Rome, a celebration nominally scheduled for Thursday 25 Dec would actually begin in the evening of the previous Wednesday, which might explain the discrepancy, if the author Hippolytus was in fact our Roman Hippolytus.

]]> By: Hippolytus and the Original Date of Christmas | Chronicon Blog http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-264 Hippolytus and the Original Date of Christmas | Chronicon Blog Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:46:39 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-264 [...] this time last year I put up a blog post pointing out that Hippolytus of Rome names December 25 as the birthday of Jesus in his Commentary [...] [...] this time last year I put up a blog post pointing out that Hippolytus of Rome names December 25 as the birthday of Jesus in his Commentary [...]

]]> By: Tom http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-258 Tom Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:15:25 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-258 hi Rachel, I am going to be posting an in-depth investigation about Hippolytus and the date of Christmas in the next week or two. However to answer your question those two dates together don't make any sense, which is why scholars debate over which date is original, if any. Tom hi Rachel,
I am going to be posting an in-depth investigation about Hippolytus and the date of Christmas in the next week or two. However to answer your question those two dates together don’t make any sense, which is why scholars debate over which date is original, if any.

Tom

]]> By: Rachel http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-257 Rachel Thu, 18 Nov 2010 21:48:14 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-257 I'm confused on what the copy of what Hippolytus states in the updated version of this piece: four days before the Nones of April, 8 days before the kalends of January, I understand 4 days before the 5th of April would be April 1st and 8 days before the kalends of January would be December 25th. But what does it mean together like this? Thank you. I’m confused on what the copy of what Hippolytus states in the updated version of this piece:

four days before the Nones of April, 8 days before the kalends of January,

I understand 4 days before the 5th of April would be April 1st and 8 days before the kalends of January would be December 25th. But what does it mean together like this?

Thank you.

]]> By: Unanimous http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-48 Unanimous Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:35:10 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-48 The only reason Hippolytus has a Wednesday December 25 and 42nd year of Augustus is because he originally thought he was 30. If he thought right away he was 33 then he would have had December 25 a Saturday 6bc and 39th year of Augustus. It is also the 15th day of the new moon. There is another insciption found later which states that it was december 25th a Friday the 14th or 15th day of the new moon. Why would they count the days after the new moon? Could they even do it? It had to be passed down to them somehow. The only reason Hippolytus has a Wednesday December 25 and 42nd year of Augustus is because he originally thought he was 30. If he thought right away he was 33 then he would have had December 25 a Saturday 6bc and 39th year of Augustus. It is also the 15th day of the new moon. There is another insciption found later which states that it was december 25th a Friday the 14th or 15th day of the new moon. Why would they count the days after the new moon? Could they even do it? It had to be passed down to them somehow.

]]> By: stephan huller http://chronicon.net/blog/chronology/hippolytus-and-december-25th-the-birthday-of-christ/#comment-47 stephan huller Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:48:45 +0000 http://www.chronicon.net/blog/?p=452#comment-47 Hans, 35 AD doesn't fit with the calculation of Jewish Passovers. That's the one piece of data that can't be screwed with. The lunar cycle is beyond the power of editors to change. Hans, 35 AD doesn’t fit with the calculation of Jewish Passovers. That’s the one piece of data that can’t be screwed with. The lunar cycle is beyond the power of editors to change.

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